S G K Health Insurance FIASCO - Urgent

[March girl]

I phoned the Embassy in Ankara today and they said they are not aware of this, but, write a letter and have translated to turkish for SGK office att of:- Dirsen Pinar (manager) airing your complaint and the fact that you have been accepted already. Pension in UK is not an income as such it is money taken from your wages every payday for your retirement (taintamount to savings scheme), you must prove that you are not entitled to healthcare in UK. I have just contacted my old practice manager at doctors for the latter. I have also sent email to UK government regarding this as I am going through chemo at present and am a bit worried to say the least. Also a letter to the consul office in Fethiye att: of Honorary Consulate airing your complaints as Turkish residents pension is not regarded as income and are means tested for health insurance.SGK office number is 6080000

[Rindaloo]

A friend sent me this yesterday.....

The British Embassy in Izmir telephoned me and said that after the 31st of this month all medical health insurance's will be cancelled unless you can prove that you are not receiving a government pension from your own country.
 
He said that Fethiye had sent him 30 people who are on the scheme and was asked by the SGK office to check if they were receiving pensions (not private) from England.  He told me that he was sending them back and asking the SGK office to deal with this themselves!! He is fully on our side and thinks that the whole thing is stupid.
 
We need to kick up a bit of a stink here somehow.

Now what??

[stoop]

Not sure if it's different in Turkey but in the UK your State pension is classed as income.

If the rules are different in Turkey then I hope all those affected get this sorted. Sounds like another frustrating nightmare for those living there.

[Rindaloo]

Yes, very frustrating.  I don't see how us getting a pension from the UK means we aren't entitled to healthcare.  We want healthcare because we are no longer entitled to it in the UK.  We aren't bothered about getting the Turkish pension in 15 years (we may not live that long) and we ARE entitled to a UK pension, as and when we are old enough.  If they asked us to sign something saying that we will not be requiring the Turkish pension, then we would sign it, if it meant that we could get the healthcare.

Three years ago foreigners could get Bag Kur (if they were lucky enough to find an office that knew how to process it). Just over one year ago they wanted to make it compulsory.  Now they are whipping it away from us over the pensions.  Why can't someone in government here contact someone in government in UK to establish the facts?  WHY didn't they do this three years ago when they made it available to expats?

I  hope something IS in the pipeline that will mean we aren't left high and dry (possibly will be mentioned in the forthcoming letters).  I just have a nasty feeling that if there IS something, it will be expensive.

[Eric]

From the Dept. of Health website;

"Are you a UK state pensioner spending more than 6 months a year living outside the United Kingdom?

    Author:
    Department of Health
    Published date:
    1 August 2011
    Copyright holder:
    Crown

Rules, procedures and documentation on access to hospital and primary health care, NHS charges and exemptions.

What if I should need hospital treatment?

Under the current Regulations, anyone who has spent more than 6 months of the past 12 living outside the UK may no longer be entitled to free NHS hospital treatment in England. However, depending on your circumstances, you might still be considered ordinarily resident in the UK even if you have been absent for more than 6 months.  Ordinarily resident is a common law concept interpreted by the House of Lords in 1982 as someone who is living lawfully in the United Kingdom voluntarily and for settled purposes as part of the regular order of their life for the time being, with an identifiable purpose for their residence here which has a sufficient degree of continuity to be properly described as settled. If you are no longer ordinarily resident in the UK then you will have to be exempt from charges in order to receive free NHS hospital treatment.

If you have a UK state retirement pension and have lived in the UK (or been employed as a UK crown servant) for ten continuous years at some point in the past, you will be exempt from charges for treatment the need for which arises during your visit to the UK.  This means treatment needed where the diagnosis of a condition is made when first symptoms arise during a visit to the UK. It also applies where, in the opinion of a doctor or dentist employed by an NHS hospital, treatment is needed quickly to prevent a pre-existing condition increasing in severity, eg dialysis. It does not include routine monitoring of an existing condition such as diabetes.

This exemption extends to your spouse, civil partner and children (under the age of 16, or 19 if in further education) as long as they are lawfully present with you for the duration of your stay."

I think the Turkish authorities may be interpreting this to mean; If you have a state pension you are entitled to free medical care in the UK, so fly back there for it!!!!

[stoop]

"If you have a UK state retirement pension and have lived in the UK (or been employed as a UK crown servant) for ten continuous years at some point in the past, you will be exempt from charges for treatment the need for which arises during your visit to the UK. This means treatment needed where the diagnosis of a condition is made when first symptoms arise during a visit to the UK. It also applies where, in the opinion of a doctor or dentist employed by an NHS hospital, treatment is needed quickly to prevent a pre-existing condition increasing in severity, eg dialysis. It does not include routine monitoring of an existing condition such as diabetes."

That looks like a pretty good assumption you made there Eric. Obviously the Turkish authorities realise that anyone who has a UK State Pension has health care in place back home and therefore does not need it in Turkey. Never mind the cost of flights and the fact they now live in Turkey full time - or the fact that they might need emergency treatment.

[Rindaloo]

Unless I am understanding things wrongly, Emergency treatment is the only treatment we are now entitled to in the UK.  So, that leaves us up a gum tree.

[Eric]

This is the 'GUIDANCE ON IMPLEMENTING THE OVERSEAS VISITORS HOSPITAL CHARGING REGULATIONS';

http://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/documents/digitalasset/dh_128970.pdf

However, when you trawl through the Dept of Health website there are all sorts of contradictions. The final note on one of their pages states;

"Please note the above information gives general guidance only and should not be treated as a complete and authoritative statement of law. In all cases the Regulations place the responsibility of deciding who is entitled to receive free hospital treatment with the hospital providing treatment."

Then you have;

'Returning to the UK after a period of time living away?

If you return to the UK to take up permanent residence here again, then you will be entitled to receive free NHS hospital treatment from the day you return. So will your spouse, civil partner and children (under the age of 16, or 19 if in further education) if they are also living with you permanently in the UK again.

In common with those ordinarily resident in the UK, anyone who meets the criteria of ordinary residence or is exempt from charges for hospital treatment will have to pay statutory NHS charges, eg prescription charges, unless they also qualify for exemption from these, and will have to go onto waiting lists for treatment where appropriate'

Therefor if you require any treatment you travel back to the UK and, IF ASKED, you state you have just moved back to the UK.  Simples!

[vinvola]

On this one Eric is 100% right.

[Rindaloo]

I have a friend who isn't a member on this forum.  She has told me today that we need to get a pension forecast for each insured person 1 for husband, 1 for wife.  This then needs to be translated and notarised.  You then take it into the SGK office.  My friend did this today.  If you do not do this, your Bag Kur will cease at the end of this month, I believe.  If you are receiving UK government pension, your Bag Kur will be stopped.  It seems we all should have received letters earlier this month, warning us of the forthcoming cessation of healthcover..  I certainly haven't had one.

OK, that's one issue we need to deal with.  The other is the fact that this cessation of healthcover is totally illogical.  We NEED healthcare.  We can only get emergency healthcare in the UK if we are visiting and a problem arises.  General healthcare is something we need here.  Healthcare for day to day life, illnesses, accidents.  We NEED the peace of mind that we have Healthcare and we are prepared to pay Bag Kur to get it!!  Why is our UK pension stopping us from having that healthcare???  

I will soon have the email address of a Minister who we can send our feelings to on this.  The system is changing to one that is casting us adrift.  In the UK we paid for Healthcare and pension.  We will still get that pension.  But we NEED healthcare HERE.  You have to be on Bag Kur for 15 years to get a Turkish pension.  I don't want the Turkish pension.  I want (NEED) the healthcare.  When I get the address, I will post it on here. We all need to fight for this, we need to make the government understand that Yes, we will/do get a pension from the UK, but we do NOT get healthcare in the UK (apart from emergency treatment).  We are NOT trying to cheat the system by having Bag Kur.

If we haven't got the letter, we are working blind (sorry).  But, be warned, my info is that regardless of your age, your Bag Kur will stop at the end of this month unless you prove you aren't getting a pension in the UK.

Of course, this is Turkey and the wind might change in a day or two.....